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 Syncing to Timecode 
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Post Syncing to Timecode
Hello everyone,

I am desperately trying to figure out how to sync the V2 application to audio with timecode.

To be more specific, I am running V2 Byron on a Macintosh, and want to sync a pre-programmed light show with a click/backing tracks. Is it possible to sync V2 to timecode coming from a separate application on the same computer (say, Logic Pro or Protools), or does it need a separate device to feed input?

Essentially, what would be the simplest method of syncing V2 to a stereo audio track? Can I do this without using an external audio/timecode source?


Last edited by dupree on Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:02 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:53 pm
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Post Re: SyncIng to Timecode
You will need not only a separate device feeding the timecode, you will also need a wing to accept the timecode. Processing timecode requires more than just an audio feed. I have been trying to find a way to process internal timecode for many different things and there doesn't seem to be one. there is more to it than just an audio track when you are trying to read it. The Vista hardware is designed to read it when it comes in the timecode jack.

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Ben Coleman

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Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:52 pm
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Post Re: Syncing to Timecode
Gotcha. Too bad it can't read timecode internally from the same machine. But what do you mean that I will need "a wing to accept the timecode."?

Could this be accomplished between two computers? One to play the audio/send timecode, and the other to receive the timecode and run Vista?


Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:06 am
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Post Re: Syncing to Timecode
You need hardware to accept the timecode. The only item that I know of that will work with Vista is Vista hardware like an S1 or S3 wing. You can't run the timecode signal in the mic in, well, you could but it wouldn't work. You can play the timecode single out of a sound card but it takes a hardware interface to decode it into something usable.

I have run timecode out of a 3 track MP3 from Qlab using a Fireface audio interface. I ran that into my Timecode In jack on my T2. Both the S1 and S3 have timecode in jacks as well so they would work. I don't know of any other interface that would work so those are your best bet.

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Ben Coleman

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Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:54 am
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Post Re: Syncing to Timecode
Hm... It doesn't seem that need another machine to accept the timecode - I need a source that can feed audio and timecode into my computer. How is timecode supposed to get into the computer? USB? Cat5?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding, I'm a bit new to timecode. Logically speaking, it doesn't seem like an extremely difficult task to send an audio signal with timecode into the computer, and have Byron sync to that timecode. But perhaps I have this entirely wrong?

I guess I need to do a bit more reading up on the subject. It seemed like a simple enough task, which is why I asked. But it seems much more difficult than I thought.

Thanks


Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:51 pm
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Post Re: Syncing to Timecode
Does the internal timecode Byron generates go anywhere ?
If you can get the timecode out, it may simplify the workflow to use Byron as the source to trigger your audio playback.


Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:28 pm
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Post Re: Syncing to Timecode
ScottBernoth wrote:
Does the internal timecode Byron generates go anywhere ?
If you can get the timecode out, it may simplify the workflow to use Byron as the source to trigger your audio playback.


While that would be truly AWESOME, I doubt the internal Vista timecode goes anywhere. There isn't any way to select an output for it. From what I understand, generating the timecode "audio" takes a bit of power.


dupree wrote:
Hm... It doesn't seem that need another machine to accept the timecode - I need a source that can feed audio and timecode into my computer. How is timecode supposed to get into the computer? USB? Cat5?


That is my exact point with needing a wing. That has the hardware and the interface to accept the timecode from an external source. Timecode is a very high frequency audio file, it can be recorded and played from an audio track but you need a hardware decoder to translate those sounds into numbers. So far I have not found any software only way to do that, everything needs a hardware interface. I would love a way to run it over USB or Cat 5 but that won't happen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMPTE_timecode

There are a few different interfaces that decode timecode. Most of them are pro audio interfaces designed for multitrack environments. The Motu Timepiece is one of them that I have been looking at. The problem that I see it that the only hardware interface that will talk to the Vista software is Vista hardware.

Timecode actually is quite easy when you have the right equipment. The first time I used it I was sent timecode from video world from a DVD with program audio on the right track and timecode on the left track. I just took that signal and plugged it into my T2 timecode jack which can decode it and make the playhead move.

You could run it all from one machine but you would have to output the audio and split the track with the timecode and bring it into Vista wing that has a timecode in jack. While this would work I wouldn't ever recommend doing it since that puts alot more strain on the computer. I prefer a computer set up as a console to ONLY be doing that.

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Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:08 am
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Post Re: Syncing to Timecode
bclighting wrote:
ScottBernoth wrote:
Does the internal timecode Byron generates go anywhere ?
If you can get the timecode out, it may simplify the workflow to use Byron as the source to trigger your audio playback.


While that would be truly AWESOME, I doubt the internal Vista timecode goes anywhere. There isn't any way to select an output for it. From what I understand, generating the timecode "audio" takes a bit of power.


Hmmm, that is irritating then. I just assumed as the point of generating timecode is to sync different systems together, Byron would be able to output the timecode it generates somehow. Silly me :oops: !


Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:54 am
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Post Re: Syncing to Timecode
Hi,

This won't be immediately helpful but I thought I would post anyways. There's a program on the mac called SMPTE Reader http://nobusiness-soft.com/smptereader/. It takes the audio from the 1/8 inch in and converts it to MTC. I read somewhere on these forums that Jands might have MIDI close to functional. Once that's done, you shouldn't need hardware anymore for timecode to be functional.

I've used the program multiple times for other things and haven't had any problems with it. It's very handy.

In regards to generating SMPTE. I probably did it the hardest way but I used a MOTU MTC -> LTC device I have to generate the LTC, then I recorded it back into Logic and grabbed the WAV file. I've heard that PT HD w/ IO can output a SMPTE file along with your session. I've heard Abelton can do it. I think After Effects can. I haven't tried those last three because the programs aren't readily available to me and my file works.

Anyways, once you get the file, you can play it out of Logic, ProTools, or whatever audio program you want. You could even put it on one side of a stereo file and play it out of iTunes I suppose,

Good luck,

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Samuel Pendergrass
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Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:49 am
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Post Re: Syncing to Timecode
Now that's a cool program. Good find, I will have to try it out. I have been looking for a program to simply read incoming timecode. I have also been looking for a basic program that could generate timecode to a wav file without the extra step of recording it back.

I don't know if Vista's midi functionality will support MTC though. I wasn't going to bring MTC up because I didn't want to further muddy the timecode waters ;) MTC is a different beast that can't be played as an audio channel I believe. LTC is the timecode that Vista understands and it the standard timecode in video/audio world (for the most part, there is VITC too).

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Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:51 am
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Post Re: Syncing to Timecode
Hi,
davidm wrote:
We have Midi Time Code (MTC) and Midi Show Control (MSC) running in beta.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2382

MTC can't be played as an audio file but apparently it is quite easy to convert between LTC and MTC. I'm not really an expert but there seem to be a variety of both software and hardware to do it. I purchased a $15 old Digidesign device off ebay that goes both ways. Very handy to have.

Also if you're using PT LE or Logic and don't want to play an audio file (can't think of a scenario where this would be true) both those programs output MTC much more easily.

You could use this program http://www.videotoolshed.com/?page=products&pID=44 to generate your timecode file. Unfortunately it costs some money. It seems like there has got to be an easier (free) way to do it. Hopefully someone knows.

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Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:15 am
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Post Re: Syncing to Timecode
I totally missed that about MTC. That should be perfect for running a show out of something like Qlab. I can output MTC much easier than SMPTE and I can do it with a much cheaper interface like you said.

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Ben Coleman

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Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:32 am
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Post Re: Syncing to Timecode
Thanks for the help guys. I talked to a friend who has had more experience with timecode and vista software. He only uses version 1 of the software, and outputs audio/smpte from one laptop into a Motu Ultralite MK3, and from there into version 1.

From what you guys said here, V2 won't communicate with anything but Vista hardware. But, version 1 apparently will?


Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:51 pm
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Post Re: Syncing to Timecode
dupree wrote:
Thanks for the help guys. I talked to a friend who has had more experience with timecode and vista software. He only uses version 1 of the software, and outputs audio/smpte from one laptop into a Motu Ultralite MK3, and from there into version 1.

From what you guys said here, V2 won't communicate with anything but Vista hardware. But, version 1 apparently will?


That's news to me. Ask him how he has Vista patched to accept the timecode from the Motu interface. I've never tried bringing timecode into Vista with anything else but the S1 or S3 wings. Actually I haven't used them for timecode either, whenever I am running from timecode it is on a T2. I wasn't aware that Vista could take timecode from 3rd party interfaces. Now we are getting into territory that David should chime in on:

Will Vista accept timecode brought in from 3rd party interfaces? If so, how do you tell Vista where to look for it?

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Ben Coleman

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Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:11 am
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Post Re: Syncing to Timecode
bclighting wrote:
dupree wrote:
Thanks for the help guys. I talked to a friend who has had more experience with timecode and vista software. He only uses version 1 of the software, and outputs audio/smpte from one laptop into a Motu Ultralite MK3, and from there into version 1.

From what you guys said here, V2 won't communicate with anything but Vista hardware. But, version 1 apparently will?


That's news to me. Ask him how he has Vista patched to accept the timecode from the Motu interface. I've never tried bringing timecode into Vista with anything else but the S1 or S3 wings. Actually I haven't used them for timecode either, whenever I am running from timecode it is on a T2. I wasn't aware that Vista could take timecode from 3rd party interfaces. Now we are getting into territory that David should chime in on:

Will Vista accept timecode brought in from 3rd party interfaces? If so, how do you tell Vista where to look for it?


That seem's to be what it boils down to. Hopefully David can help us out with this... I haven't been able to find a definitive answer.


Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:30 pm
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